John
November 22nd, 2004, 10:55 AM
Is anyone currently using one? if so, which one, and which machine is it hooked up to? performance increase? i currently run 75' of inch and a half with my porty and get great performance. i get dry times of 2hrs or less average now and wish to decrease that even more. the max length of hose i would run is 100'! thanks all
Donald:
I want to let you know that in 22 years of building carpet cleaning machines, I have tested many different vacuum configurations. Your best performance to boost your vacuum is double what you have now if you vacuum motors are in series. For example, if you have two 2 stage vacuum motors in series, then add another two 2 stages in series and this new pair in parallel with the original set. This will be a waste of time if you do not
increase you vacuum hose to 2" I.D. at the same time. The interior wall vacuum friction is substantially increased after 75 ft.
If you are already running dual 3 stage vacuum in series, you need to add another dual 3 stages of vacuum in series and then place this new set in parallel with the original. Again, this only improves your vacuum past 75 ft if the hose is increased to 2" I.D. at the same time. If you are running dual 2 stage in parallel then you can add one more 2 stage in parallel. If you are running dual 3 stage in parallel you can add one more 3 stage in parallel. In this situation you must also increase your vacuum hose and vacuum hose barbed connector on the face of the machine to 2" I.D.
The maximum cubic feet per minute that a 1.5" I.D hose can handle is 200 cfm. If you have a machine that has dual 2 stage vacuum and you want to add only one more, this is what you can expect: The first vacuum motor pulls up to 90" of lift @ 100 cfm, then add the second motor increases the inches of water lift by 65% of the last motor (90" X 65% = 58.5"). 58.5" + 90" = 148.5" @ 90 CFM. (Note each extra vacuum motor in series will reduce you cfm by at least and extra 10%). When you add more vacuum motor, this third motor with only have the vacuum of 65% of the last. 58.5" X 65% = 38.025". The total vacuum = 90" + 58.5" + 38.025" = 186.525" @ 80 cfm.
If you want, you can post what you have and I will clarify what you can expect. We also sell electrical converters that can operate up to 4 vacuum motors on one 220 volt electric dryer plug.
hello donald,
thank you for responding. quite honestly, i sometimes get confused
when it comes to cfm's, water lift, and inches of mercury. i do know they
all are important and also know that when increasing one, the other usually
drops off.
gonna give you some examples here, and i'm sure you know much better
than i do.
truckforce markets thier unit by using inches of mercury (14") via
3/2stagers along with 2" plumbing throughout. no mention of water lift. dont
know if its parellel or series configuration.
habitek's quad, markets using cfm's, 280 at the wand, 4/2stagers, 2"
plumbing. vacs are parellel.
cross american's recoil 3 uses cfm's also to market and claim it
produces 300, all thru inch and a half hose. and 200' of it at that. no
mention of lift (like the quad) and not sure of configuration. 200' of hose?
tough nut for me to swallow however, it is here that leads me to believe i
can turn my portable into a high cfm, high lift unit, and keep the inch and
a half set up.
this is what i have........
the eclipse from cleancraft, manufactured by TMI. 3/2stagers, 249" water
lift, which they claim is almost 18" of mercury! i'm not sure if its series
or parellel configuration. what i do know is this. i tested the above 3,
and they are very good machines, with good power, but after testing the
eclipse, i found it left the carpet drier. all 4 were tested with 50' of
hose. i've even tested it side by side with 2 truck mounts. a panther 15hp,
and an electro mount, and this machine out cleaned them! meaning the carpet was left drier!!
just so you know, i'm not here to bash other equipment or companies. i
just would like to see them give the specs needed to make an informed
decision. i was fortunate to be able to test many different types!
i've been told my machine puts out anywhere from 95 to 150cfm's. as much
as i like the folks at cleancraft, i've never gotten an answer to this, and
quite honestly, it dont matter to me cause at 75' hose length, this machine
is quite impressive. i've also found that with its dual heating system, the
"steam" is visable while cleaning, just like a truckmount. i've never seen
any other portable do this!
as far as the vac booster is concerned, i am considering this so i can
double my hose length, leave the machine in the van, and not loose
performance. maybe even add some! there is no room what so ever to add a
4th vac in the unit and is another reason i'm considering an external
booster. the recovery tank on the eclipse has cross members inside, so i
dont think there is concern with implosion.
i understand i may be totally off base here with this idea, but i'd sure
like to know if i can do this.
thank you for your time donald.
p.s. i have 2 adapters i use to avoid tripping breakers.
Donald:
I want to make sure that you know that all manufactures bend the true about their vacuum performance. So far to date the only manufacture that states the honest truth about vacuum performance is the Pelican What the Pelican does not state, is the maximum inches of water lift is about 87 inches at zero cfm or 280 inches at zero inches of lift. They don't post the 280 at zero inches of lift because it sound funny. When you compare what other manufactures state about their equipment, you say to yourself "zero inches of lift, that sounds like a joke machine." But in real life this machine is one of the industries top performing machines.
I am going to post the vacuum motor performance of a 3 stage 5.7" motor. On the chart you will see that as you restrict the vacuum and raise the inches of water lift, you lower the cfm. Because of this when you see a manufacture post a vac specification of 210" @ 100 cfm, this is made up. The vacuum motors may pull 210" inches of lift at zero cfm or 100 cfm at zero inches of lift. You will be able to see by the chart you can not have the best of both worlds. In real life carpet cleaning, the wand does not make a perfect seal on the carpet so the vacuum inches of lift is usually at half restriction, so it is like cleaning at half the cfm the manufacture states at half the inches of water lift. The other thing that needs to really hold a true testing between machines dry time is to use the same pump pressure, at the same water temperature, at the same water viscosity, with the same type of hoses and length, with the same wand, on the same soiled carpet, with the same size spray jets. Naturally the amount of water deposited on the carpet is a bearing on how much water there is to pick back up.
Now you know full well that a machine with four vacuum motors will pull more cfm than 3. So how does Cross America recoil 3 pull more cfm than a Pelican? Who do you think is stretching the truth here?
In the last article I posted above I talked about real life vacuum performance using the 65% theory. The second vacuum motor is usually boost the vacuum" of lift by 65% of the last vacuum motor the air past through. With this in mind how does TMI state that a their triple or quad vac motor machines pull 249 to 300 inches of lift. We do not life in a perfect world and the laws of physics do hold true to friction.
The TMI machine you are using is a series vacuum configuration. You have a total of six stages of vacuum in series. You will need to add another six sages of vacuum in series in order to boost you vacuum or add one more 2 stage at the end the exhaust of the last motor. Let us say that the specs on your machine hold true (249" @ 95 cfm). If I had another 6 stages (triple 2 stage or 2 three stage) of series vacuum and then place this new set in parallel to the first 6 stages, I would get 249" @ 180 cfm. Second option: If I had another 2 stage motor at the exhaust end I would get a little more inches of lift (65% more than the last vacuum motor) @ 95 cfm.
Let me also tell you what will happen if you add another 2 stage vac booster in parallel to the 6 stages you are using. You will get the inches of water lift of the weakest set. In the case the single 2 stage at about 87 inches of lift, but you would almost double you cfm to 180 cfm.
I hope I answered all your questions.
http://www.steam-brite.com/images/3stageVacPerformance.jpg
Donald:
I want to let you know that in 22 years of building carpet cleaning machines, I have tested many different vacuum configurations. Your best performance to boost your vacuum is double what you have now if you vacuum motors are in series. For example, if you have two 2 stage vacuum motors in series, then add another two 2 stages in series and this new pair in parallel with the original set. This will be a waste of time if you do not
increase you vacuum hose to 2" I.D. at the same time. The interior wall vacuum friction is substantially increased after 75 ft.
If you are already running dual 3 stage vacuum in series, you need to add another dual 3 stages of vacuum in series and then place this new set in parallel with the original. Again, this only improves your vacuum past 75 ft if the hose is increased to 2" I.D. at the same time. If you are running dual 2 stage in parallel then you can add one more 2 stage in parallel. If you are running dual 3 stage in parallel you can add one more 3 stage in parallel. In this situation you must also increase your vacuum hose and vacuum hose barbed connector on the face of the machine to 2" I.D.
The maximum cubic feet per minute that a 1.5" I.D hose can handle is 200 cfm. If you have a machine that has dual 2 stage vacuum and you want to add only one more, this is what you can expect: The first vacuum motor pulls up to 90" of lift @ 100 cfm, then add the second motor increases the inches of water lift by 65% of the last motor (90" X 65% = 58.5"). 58.5" + 90" = 148.5" @ 90 CFM. (Note each extra vacuum motor in series will reduce you cfm by at least and extra 10%). When you add more vacuum motor, this third motor with only have the vacuum of 65% of the last. 58.5" X 65% = 38.025". The total vacuum = 90" + 58.5" + 38.025" = 186.525" @ 80 cfm.
If you want, you can post what you have and I will clarify what you can expect. We also sell electrical converters that can operate up to 4 vacuum motors on one 220 volt electric dryer plug.
hello donald,
thank you for responding. quite honestly, i sometimes get confused
when it comes to cfm's, water lift, and inches of mercury. i do know they
all are important and also know that when increasing one, the other usually
drops off.
gonna give you some examples here, and i'm sure you know much better
than i do.
truckforce markets thier unit by using inches of mercury (14") via
3/2stagers along with 2" plumbing throughout. no mention of water lift. dont
know if its parellel or series configuration.
habitek's quad, markets using cfm's, 280 at the wand, 4/2stagers, 2"
plumbing. vacs are parellel.
cross american's recoil 3 uses cfm's also to market and claim it
produces 300, all thru inch and a half hose. and 200' of it at that. no
mention of lift (like the quad) and not sure of configuration. 200' of hose?
tough nut for me to swallow however, it is here that leads me to believe i
can turn my portable into a high cfm, high lift unit, and keep the inch and
a half set up.
this is what i have........
the eclipse from cleancraft, manufactured by TMI. 3/2stagers, 249" water
lift, which they claim is almost 18" of mercury! i'm not sure if its series
or parellel configuration. what i do know is this. i tested the above 3,
and they are very good machines, with good power, but after testing the
eclipse, i found it left the carpet drier. all 4 were tested with 50' of
hose. i've even tested it side by side with 2 truck mounts. a panther 15hp,
and an electro mount, and this machine out cleaned them! meaning the carpet was left drier!!
just so you know, i'm not here to bash other equipment or companies. i
just would like to see them give the specs needed to make an informed
decision. i was fortunate to be able to test many different types!
i've been told my machine puts out anywhere from 95 to 150cfm's. as much
as i like the folks at cleancraft, i've never gotten an answer to this, and
quite honestly, it dont matter to me cause at 75' hose length, this machine
is quite impressive. i've also found that with its dual heating system, the
"steam" is visable while cleaning, just like a truckmount. i've never seen
any other portable do this!
as far as the vac booster is concerned, i am considering this so i can
double my hose length, leave the machine in the van, and not loose
performance. maybe even add some! there is no room what so ever to add a
4th vac in the unit and is another reason i'm considering an external
booster. the recovery tank on the eclipse has cross members inside, so i
dont think there is concern with implosion.
i understand i may be totally off base here with this idea, but i'd sure
like to know if i can do this.
thank you for your time donald.
p.s. i have 2 adapters i use to avoid tripping breakers.
Donald:
I want to make sure that you know that all manufactures bend the true about their vacuum performance. So far to date the only manufacture that states the honest truth about vacuum performance is the Pelican What the Pelican does not state, is the maximum inches of water lift is about 87 inches at zero cfm or 280 inches at zero inches of lift. They don't post the 280 at zero inches of lift because it sound funny. When you compare what other manufactures state about their equipment, you say to yourself "zero inches of lift, that sounds like a joke machine." But in real life this machine is one of the industries top performing machines.
I am going to post the vacuum motor performance of a 3 stage 5.7" motor. On the chart you will see that as you restrict the vacuum and raise the inches of water lift, you lower the cfm. Because of this when you see a manufacture post a vac specification of 210" @ 100 cfm, this is made up. The vacuum motors may pull 210" inches of lift at zero cfm or 100 cfm at zero inches of lift. You will be able to see by the chart you can not have the best of both worlds. In real life carpet cleaning, the wand does not make a perfect seal on the carpet so the vacuum inches of lift is usually at half restriction, so it is like cleaning at half the cfm the manufacture states at half the inches of water lift. The other thing that needs to really hold a true testing between machines dry time is to use the same pump pressure, at the same water temperature, at the same water viscosity, with the same type of hoses and length, with the same wand, on the same soiled carpet, with the same size spray jets. Naturally the amount of water deposited on the carpet is a bearing on how much water there is to pick back up.
Now you know full well that a machine with four vacuum motors will pull more cfm than 3. So how does Cross America recoil 3 pull more cfm than a Pelican? Who do you think is stretching the truth here?
In the last article I posted above I talked about real life vacuum performance using the 65% theory. The second vacuum motor is usually boost the vacuum" of lift by 65% of the last vacuum motor the air past through. With this in mind how does TMI state that a their triple or quad vac motor machines pull 249 to 300 inches of lift. We do not life in a perfect world and the laws of physics do hold true to friction.
The TMI machine you are using is a series vacuum configuration. You have a total of six stages of vacuum in series. You will need to add another six sages of vacuum in series in order to boost you vacuum or add one more 2 stage at the end the exhaust of the last motor. Let us say that the specs on your machine hold true (249" @ 95 cfm). If I had another 6 stages (triple 2 stage or 2 three stage) of series vacuum and then place this new set in parallel to the first 6 stages, I would get 249" @ 180 cfm. Second option: If I had another 2 stage motor at the exhaust end I would get a little more inches of lift (65% more than the last vacuum motor) @ 95 cfm.
Let me also tell you what will happen if you add another 2 stage vac booster in parallel to the 6 stages you are using. You will get the inches of water lift of the weakest set. In the case the single 2 stage at about 87 inches of lift, but you would almost double you cfm to 180 cfm.
I hope I answered all your questions.
http://www.steam-brite.com/images/3stageVacPerformance.jpg